Average audience age 103? Where are all the 'young' people?

[Sophie]

I'm going to be age-ist here, but I was recently surprised and a bit saddened at the skewed age range evident at a major city concert venue - Saturday night performance. The music and venue were sensational, the ticket prices not out of this world (even for full price) - so where was all the young blood? I felt rather out of place even at my advanced age.
Opinions?
S

[Sophie]

Can't help myself, have to spout on already... Wondering if this can be linked to the 'audience behaviour' discussion - my comment was that I dislike the 'no applause' convention. Guessing young people wouldn't be too keen to be told "thou shalt not express your appreciation" ...
S

[Louise]

I think the two discussions - concert behaviour and age of audiences - do partly intersect. The other factors include where and how a concert is presented. Maybe there will be different answers in different countries, but in the UK the Proms in the Albert Hall attract young audience members - perhaps it's the informality of standing in the Arena and Gallery, it's cheap, and there's no dress code. There often is applause between movements; the rapt attention during movements, however, is exemplary.

But mostly, classical concerts in traditional format are perceived as uncool. When does it become okay to go? When you are old enough to be your own person.

[Sophie]

What can be done to change the perception/change the promotion/change the behavioural boundaries? I'd love to go to concerts with a good spread of ages - and it would be great to think that when the older members of the audience 'retire' there are younger ones to take their place.
S

[Louise]

Rather than try to change perception/promotion/behaviour separately, let's ensure that there are alternative venues and formats for concerts alongside the traditional ones, with visionary arts administrators; different ways of presenting music from thoughtful performers who connect with audiences of all ages, coming from institutions which encourage and develop new approaches. We need gifted teachers in schools and in private studios who inspire and communicate both a love of music and curiosity, and new ways of 'going to a concert', whether it's the Berlin Philharmonic's Digital Concert Hall or the Metropolitan Opera in the cinema. We need funding for the education departments of arts organisations, which do a great job in devising youth-friendly events. More 'Friends' of Festivals, orchestras and venues who support financially and by giving their time and experience to move projects forward; writers, reviewers, bloggers and broadcasters who enliven the music scene in print, online, on air and on TV. And - we need our composers, who give us all something original and fresh to say.

Finally, what about a place where we can all meet and share ideas... :)

Sophie said:

What can be done to change the perception/change the promotion/change the behavioural boundaries? I'd love to go to concerts with a good spread of ages - and it would be great to think that when the older members of the audience 'retire' there are younger ones to take their place.
S

[Randolph]

You're all quite correct, of course. The trouble with orthodox classical music lovers is that they think they are elite. It's classical music or nothing at all...and alas, if we all think that way, music as we know it will die. We have to encourage the youngsters who are still at an impressionable age and seduce them into listening to the medium. This can only happen by education, stimulation and by introducing works that are popular and fairly well known and then progressing from there into more 'serious and stimulating' works. Start them off on Strauss waltzes, Verdi overtures, Puccini arias (most of these are well known mainly because of their exposure as advertising jingles or cover versions) and then start introducing the Schubert lieders, Mahler symphonies etc. It's a laborious process but one that will eventually reap rewards.

[sam saunders]

Hi Everyone!!!
You`ll know my angle by this point!!!!
In reply to a point made by Randolph, I don`t think it is elitism that is the problem. If I choose to go to a pure baroque concert without Porgy and Bess being thrown in, that`s just me following my taste.Similarly I don`t want to go to Fretwork with a bit a Britten thrown in. I just wonder if this will bring in the audiences they want or shut out people like me who don`t want a populist event.
I might be considered an orthodox concert goer, I`m not sure(?), but it`s not that I am elitist. Also, if I pay big money for tickets I don`t want to get a load of people preventing me from listening to the music.
I am in favour of kids going to concerts too, but I feel that these should be designated "family concerts" where everyone pays a cheapish price for a ticket.

I have been to a lot of concerts where children are let in free or very cheaply, and this means that no else can listen seriously to the music!!!! What I`ve seen recently is that behaviour is really on the slide and the problem is that if "anything goes", anything and everything will be done at a concert. I can see why someone would want to have kids and teenagers at concerts , but it just doesn`t work.They get up, go and sit on someones lap,stand up and start conducting.......Teens chat to each other,check to see if they have a text message,etc ,etc. And the venue still wants people like me to pay for a full price ticket!!! It`s insane!

I don`t know what can be done about this... Children , mostly ,cannot sit still and listen and certainly to tell them how to behave would seem pretty strict! At the moment we have loads of "Proms in the Park" people who come along and ruin a serious concert for people who are genuine music lovers. Why should we have to stay at home?And why should we pay full price ?No no, the answer for me is that if we want to provide an accessible event for young people, we must provide a separate "family event" for them and a cheap for all.

I have recenlty been to some Oxford Uni concerts and given what it is and a cheap price, I know to treat it as casual, party- atmosphere event and don`t worry if people talk during the music.
I do go to various types of music events, from percussion to 20th c., contemporary,etc., but I want to know what i`m getting !!!!

Best to all,Sam

[Randolph]

When I say elitist, I mean those who think that music starts and ends with classical music. It doesn't of course, Sam. Music is made up by millions of little tunes that have survived through the ages and which we term classical and those that are on the verge of surviving. It doesn't mean that the ones on the 'almost there' list are less musical than those who have made it. So why not encourage those who have an affinty for the latter and see if we can't broaden their horizons. Otherwise those who don't try (the elitists) will just fritter away, perhaps die, and take OUR beloved music to the grave. I'm not averse to their deaths but I do object to those who, by their unthinking selfishness, want to destroy part of our culture.

[Sophie]

I think this talk of badly behaved children in concerts has taken the topic off course a bit. I'm speaking of perfectly well-behaved post-twenties types feeling disinclined to go to "serious" (dare I use the term - maybe "high quality" is better) concerts because of (perhaps) the stuffy, over-reverential atmosphere and preponderence of one-foot-in-the graves. Consequently they are missing out on something wonderful, and as R M-O said perhaps they will not become the audience for this music in the future...

Anyway, have a read of this:

http://emanuelax.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/when-to-applaud/

http://emanuelax.wordpress.com/2009/03/03/a-few-more-thoughts-on-ap...

How did we become so unemotional and unappreciative?

S

[sam saunders]

Oh, post twenties !!!!
I dont know if i`d call concerts "stuffy", though ! I just think that if you are there to listen then there has to be a certain standard of behaviour. Also, it may depend on where you are located. Where I`ve been there have been, to some types of events, youngish people,albeit only of a certain social position !!!! Some things though, exclusively older folks. I think that a lot is, and has been done, to attract younger people not usually minded to go to "classical" concerts. These folks though, often prevent me from getting what I want from the event.

I don`t agree about there being a more relaxed atmosphere.I don`t like clapping between movements as this breaks the concentration.
Despite my opinions on the subject, I would say that I think that populism is unstoppable and that you are probably going to get what you want !!!!!!! I don`t see that this momentum will stop and I don`t see that a minority of serious listeners will be able to fight back !!!! I think that we are ousted.
Best,Sam

[Zeitschichten]

I'd like to draw your attention to a young pianist, Seda Röder, who has just started a new podcast series in an attempt to attract new audiences to New Music concerts.

http://www.sedaroeder.com/blackbox-001-a-conversation-with-tolga-ya...

I feel that it is for New Music and contemporary repertories that younger audiences will return to concert events. Seda is probably doing the right thing in giving listeners something in advance, so that they can prepare themselves for the intense experience of a live performance.

Cheers!

[Sophie]

I think the 'preview' idea is fantastic - i just bought a cd on the strength of seeing someone's video on MusBook. And were there a concert in the offing, I'd go to that too.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily a contemporary (am I to read 'challenging'?) repertoire that would automatically attract a wider audience. As a slight sidetrack, I'm thinking of movie audiences - there's a market for all sorts of films: lerv stories, shoot-em-ups, comedy, serious drama, experimental/arthouse, history flicks etc. Is it that 'younger' audiences are used to having visual as well as audio stimulation, and the prospect of music with minimal visual is unappealing (talking of concerts here).

On a side-side-sidetrack, people of all ages flock to Musicals - but maybe the audience is not so large or varied for Opera (mass generalisation here - anyone privy to some stats?). Does, for instance, the music of Les Mis have more relevance to my life because it was created during my lifetime? Is the music closer to contemporary popular music and therefore more accessible?

Having said that, people still swoon over classical soundtracks in movies.

Over to you

S

[Louise]

Re young people and Opera, the Royal Opera House in London presents Schools' Matinees during their seasons which are over-subscribed. Seats are about £6; a friend took a school group to Rigoletto recently and they all loved it. Everyone in the group was 18 or younger, they got seats in the third row of the stalls, it was a fantastic production, the singing was superb, they had a day off school, chocolates were handed out at the end - what's not to like?! And apparently the tenor's face was shining with joy at the ovation he received from a house full of enthusiastic teenagers. I would love to know if such experiences create the opera-lovers of the future.

Sophie said:

I think the 'preview' idea is fantastic - i just bought a cd on the strength of seeing someone's video on MusBook. And were there a concert in the offing, I'd go to that too.

I'm not sure if it's necessarily a contemporary (am I to read 'challenging'?) repertoire that would automatically attract a wider audience. As a slight sidetrack, I'm thinking of movie audiences - there's a market for all sorts of films: lerv stories, shoot-em-ups, comedy, serious drama, experimental/arthouse, history flicks etc. Is it that 'younger' audiences are used to having visual as well as audio stimulation, and the prospect of music with minimal visual is unappealing (talking of concerts here).

On a side-side-sidetrack, people of all ages flock to Musicals - but maybe the audience is not so large or varied for Opera (mass generalisation here - anyone privy to some stats?). Does, for instance, the music of Les Mis have more relevance to my life because it was created during my lifetime? Is the music closer to contemporary popular music and therefore more accessible?

Having said that, people still swoon over classical soundtracks in movies.

Over to you

S